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Encoder Ring Parameter Value Update

Submitted by neilb on Fri, 04/02/2021 - 15:47
neilb
Control Surface Studio User

Parameter position update when selecting devices

I have a set of encoders dedicated to "device control.." When I select a track those encoders now controls the 2nd device on that track. The Device function seems to be working. What is not working is that the encoder ring does not update to the parameter values when I go back to a device/track that had previously been altered. How do I get configure CSS so that when I select a device it updates the encoder rings to represent the current parameter values?

I've attached my controller and script files for a better understanding.

I am new to CSS, so any guidance is appreciated.

P.S. below are other topics I am trying to solve for that may or may not be related:

- Dedicated device mapping - My Goal: I have one button that I would like to dedicate to control of a specific parameter on a specific device in a specific track, and have that button change functions in a different mode. I want the button to stay focused/dedicated to the specific parameter, regardless of which track I have selected. (FYI, in my first mode I intend to dedicate this button to the Loopers "multi-button")

- Track Select & Arm - I have a row of buttons for selecting and arming tracks. My goal is that. When I click a track button that it selects the track, arms the track, and turns the LED red. When I click the track button a second time the track stays selected, but is no longer armed and the LED turns white.
(I would be OK with select first and arm second too). In Ableton preferences I have exclusive arm select and in the options.text feature I use -EnableArmOnSelection. These work well for my Push 2 workflow. Right now, the current (undesired) behavior I am getting is some tracks are arming first, some are selecting first, and many are staying armed when I select a different track.

Topic Category: 

21 Responses

Comments

John C
Forum Admin
#1

Hi,

In the mapping, do you have LED feedback turned on and sending to your ring encoder control?

To do this 'control of a specific parameter on a specific device in a specific track" you just need to make sure you don't choose 'selected' for the 'Track' and 'Device' .

For this 'When I click a track button that it selects the track, arms the track, and turns the LED red"
You would probably need to use the 'reaction' mapping type.
We have some tutorials on using it (links below) but we have a new version on the way very soon which will improve usability and what can be done with it.
https://remotify.io/how-turn-led-onoff-depending-position-ableton-live-m...
https://remotify.io/blog/how-set-single-button-control-ableton-live-play...
https://remotify.io/tutorials/sending-custom-led-feedback-your-midi-cont...
https://remotify.io/tutorials/reactions-reference-guide

neilb
Control Surface Studio User
#2

Hey John,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I think I have LED feedback for the encoder rings turned on, at least the way that I thought the Device feature works, but I must have something misconfigured.

My understanding was that inside of Device, inside of Parameter Bank, I would need to have LED Feedback set to Custom -Send Feedback YES - Send Feedback to Controller input (as seen). But that's not working.

When I select a track and trust the knob, I see the device in Ableton moving correctly and see the encoder ring updating, but when I move to another track/device the encoder ring snaps back to default. When I return to the previous track/device the encoder ring is still at default and ode snot show the actual parameter values.

Thanks for the links on the other topic. I will read through them and see if I learn something new that helps.

neilb
Control Surface Studio User
#3

I’ve managed to get most of my script built and working, but this is one key area that I have not yet figure out.

When I change modes, the “dedicated” encoder assignments all update with their parameter values, but when I change devices within a single mode the 8 “shared” encoders at the top do not update parameter values, even though the control of the devices from one track to the next. Being able to see the parameter values on the shared encoders is important. Does anyone have guidance on resolving this?

Related, but separate topic while discussing encoder rings... can anyone point me to documentation on how to change the color of the encoder rings based on the current mode? The buttons change colors easily, but I’ve not yet got encoder ring colors to change.

Thank you all for the support! It’s appreciated.

neilb
Control Surface Studio User
#4

UPDATE

Ale at Yaeltex helped me figure it out....

I needed a track specifically for "Selected" mappings.

I was embedding the Device in all of the individual tracks and using the Device Selector, thinking it was the select that would move the device assignment. From a functional standpoint, it worked, but it did not benefit from the encoder ring feedback. Once I added a new Track, set it to Selected, and added the device once, it started working with enduring rings updating to parameter.

He also helped me understand the encoder ring coloring dependencies.

This is resolved. Thank you!

John C
Forum Admin
#5

Hi Neil,

Ah I see, glad you got this sorted.
Please thank Al for me if you speak to him again :)

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#6

hi, i'm having the same issue - not sure how to map my controller and when i change tracks have it control the selected track's parameters. also i can't get more than one parameter to map - wonder what i'm doing wrong! Here's my setup attempting to do 2 parameters mapped in host automation. thanks!

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#7

please see files

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#8

Okay so i got further by watching the midi twister demo but still having problems. Now I have got 11 encoders working - however, they do not update when you move the software plug in on the midi controller. how do i get feedback onto the controller itself? It works fine if i use ableton midi mapping, but not with the control script.

also, when i change tracks, the controller no longer controls the new track's plug in parameters. sorry if i'm dumb.

here's a screenshot of the new config

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#9

please see screenshot

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#10

Okay I got even further. I now have it controlling the parameters and updating them (there appears to be a bug that when you first load a plug in you have to have at least 2 tracks, or change tracks once to make the controller sync it's value display with the hosted plug in.) - but for some reason I can only get it to control the plug in in the first track. when I change tracks it does not change the function of the control. I attach a screenshot of my config.

I'm using the electra one controller - very nice piece of kit, but maybe that's making some issue? or Ableton beta? thanks.

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#11

okay, confirming part of this is an Ableton beta issue. which is a shame since it is the only way to run on M1. but selected parameter control does not work in beta and works fine in current release. further the bug where you have to change tracks at least once during the session to get the faders to update, at least on my electra one, persists. also I notice a lot of the blue key light consistently blinking in Ableton midi area - not sure why or if it matters.

John C
Forum Admin
#12

Hi Nicholas,

It sounds like you're making progress but I'll chime in here with your latest questions:
With regards to the 'selected parameter', are you using Reactions for this? as we don't have a selected parameter option in the other mapping types - I wasn't aware of the issue with Ableton beta, things for reporting this.

When you say you need to change tracks at least once, so I understand correctly, do you mean that on session load the faders do not show the correct values, but once you change tracks they then update?

With regards to the blue key blinking in Ableton, this happens whenever a midi signal is sent from a connected controller, as far as I know, there's no way for the css script to affect it.

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#13

Hey John- I think so with reactions - just like the other gentleman who configured it above. Do you have any ETA for when you might be able to look into the Ableton beta issue? It's mission critical for me as Omnisphere and other programs work so much faster on Ableton in M1 - which only runs in the beta!

2. yes- on session load the parameters do not show the correct values. select another track, and switch back, and now they work perfectly going forward. this behavior is true for current production release of Ableton.

3. I found out the blue blinking light is happening because of Native instrument Komplete Kontrol communication with the daw. I turned off my NI keyboard and blue light goes away. apparently this is normal and it's just sysex messages going to the NI control script, so shouldn't be a factor here hopefully.

thank you for making such a great app!!!!

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#14

here's my current json config if it helps. best

upload files: 
John C
Forum Admin
#15

With regards to the Ableton Beta issue, unfortunately that's out of our control, scripts can only hook into and use what is working in the Ableton API.

And with regards to 2, you could try forcing a refresh when the script is loaded,
Add a reaction which has the listener 'script > script is initialised'
Then in an action reload the mode (in your case mode 1). Reloading a mode includes a refresh of the attached LEDs so that should update all of your connected controls.
I've updated your script with this reaction and attached it below.

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#16

Thanks so much, John! I'll try that. I think I figured out the issue - you have to "select" the device in the ableton rack - perhaps there is an easier method where i just set it to device 1 since i rarely later chain devices.

Regarding the ableton beta issue - that's a shame. Is it likely because they've made changes in the API and since it's beta they don't yet release the API? Or is it possible to see if there's an updated API? Or is it just too much trouble at the moment? I will say ableton on M1 is night and day vs the old verison in terms of load times, etc. so it would really be great to get it working sooner than later ;) or else if you know any other workaround I might try in the meantime... again, thanks for a great product. all my best. nick

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#17

regarding the beta issue - the main thing that doesn't work is the parameter updating on the controller. control still works. but when you change something on the computer it doesn't update the device screen. again this works fine on ableton production.

John C
Forum Admin
#18

"you have to "select" the device in the ableton rack - perhaps there is an easier method where i just set it to device 1 since i rarely later chain devices."
yes you can set the device selection to a specific device number on either a specific track or the selected track if you like.
I think this video covers all of that: https://youtu.be/SSfaVfDqt7M

And with the beta issue, as its a beta, by design there's unfortunately going to be broken things in there and it sounds like the selected parameter functionality is one of them.
Our scripts only 'hook' into and utilise this functionality. Live itself is the thing that updates which parameter is the 'selected parameter' and then exposes this via their api.
Maybe it's something you could notify Ableton about via their beta feedback portal?

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#19

would be happy to tell ableton. what do i tell them exactly? do we know if it is selected parameter functionality not working or just the api exposure of such? do you have any way of testing it? i don't know if they will know what i mean - or do i just say i am using a custom control script and "selected parameter functionality" no longer works as it did in the production version?

Nicholas Jarecki
Control Surface Studio User
#20

I reported as a bug in the beta. Here was ableton’s super helpful reply:

“We don't support custom control scripts by 3rd parties. Please contact remotify.io directly.”

And they closed the bug request

Can you see if you can see what’s happening at all?

Otherwise would have to return as can’t use the software because of M1 slowness, which would be terrible!

John C
Forum Admin
#21

Unfortunately, we can't support issues related to Beta versions of Ableton which don't appear in the full release version.